DiversifyHER

EP 48: Authentic Leadership in Law and Life with Dorothy G. Capers

• Raven Heyward • Season 4 • Episode 9

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Listen as Raven Heyward, founder and host of DiversifyHER, converses with  Dorothy G. Capers with us. She is the Chief Legal Officer and Corporate Secretary for C.H. Robinson, a global leader in logistics and transportation. She oversees a diverse legal team and reports directly to the CEO.

Before joining C.H. Robinson, Mrs.Capers earned her J.D. from Howard University School of Law and her B.A. from the University of Illinois. She held senior legal roles at Xylem, National Express, and US Foods, and she also served as a litigator in both government and the private sector. She’s published on corporate governance and enforcement policy, and she actively gives back through mentoring and board service. 

Connect with Mrs.Capers:

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dorothy-g-capers-6982361/

Email: Dorothy.Capers@chrobinson.com



SPEAKER_00:

Hello everyone and welcome to Diversify Her Podcast. I'm your host, Raven Hayward, and today I'm honored to have Miss Dorothy G. Capers with us. She is the chief legal officer and corporate secretary for C.H. Robinson, a global leader in logistics and transportation. She oversees a divide diverse legal team and reports directly to the CEO. Before joining, she earned her JD from Howard University School of Law and her BA from the University of Illinois. She held senior legal roles at Xylem National Express and U.S. Foods, and she also served as a litigator in both government and the private sector. She's published on corporate governance and enforcement policies, and she's actively giving back through mentoring and board service. It's a pleasure to have you here on the show today. Thank you again for joining me. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_01:

I am good. Thank you so much. What a wonderful opening. I appreciate it. And I am just super proud of what you're doing, Raven. This is just wonderful. So I'm very happy to be a guest.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, thank you so much. I'm really glad that we were able to schedule this time so that you could be featured on the show. And to get us started, I would love for you to tell us just a bit more background about your journey and what first inspired you to want to pursue law.

SPEAKER_01:

So, first inspiration is probably dating back. You probably don't even know who I'm talking about when I say Perry Mason, but Perry Mason back many, many years ago, was a black and white TV show, like on like before it was even, you know, color TV, um, where he always led the like smoking gun on someone in a crime. And I used to watch it with my grandmother on a constant basis. It was one of her shows, and I loved it. And I used to think, oh my God, what's gonna happen? And I used to get very excited about the end result, you know, the dun dun dun, like what's gonna happen. And I love that. Um, couple that with a family friend um and um who became a mentor to me, Wiley Branton. I watched as I grew up all the things that he did from, you know, before I was born representing Little Rock Nine, but obviously heard about that and all the civil rights work he had done in the South, but also um just all of the things that he did as a corporate lawyer. And then he was the dean of the Howard Law School, and he sat on a board of a publicly traded company and just all these things that he did, not only to help his community, like write grassroots hands-on, but also the global way he showed up in the world. And so I just saw both of those men as like, wow, I really want to do that. And I always wanted to be a lawyer from um any going back as far as I can remember from high school. I was involved in legal, whatever it would be, debate and other things in college. I was a part of the Minority Association for Future Attorneys, and then I went to Howard. So I just, you know, was somebody who was always interested. And it took my career path uh different ways. I started in government, giving back to my community. I felt like I was really in tune with the community, and now in the corporate world, I really feel good about um how we can advance companies, how we can make sure that we're a voice and be very authentic. I'm a very authentic person in the room, um, and making sure that, you know, all views, diverse or otherwise, are considered. And so really happy to play a part now where I am uh at CH Robinson.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow, I love that. And you touched on a lot of what I want to get into with this episode with the authenticity and also giving back and even just being a black woman involved in politics, especially within today's climate of what's happening in our world. For some of my listeners and even some friends that I have that are now studying to take their LSATs and they're applying for law school and figuring out where they want to go. Um, I know you mentioned your mentor having a lot of influence and you wanting to ultimately go to Howard for your law school, but what would you say, like in these precedent times that we're going through, what advice would you give to young black girls that are wanting to pursue law school on where they should go and kind of how to make that decision, especially in the climate of today's generation?

SPEAKER_01:

So I, you know, having done both, you know, uh HBCU for law school and University of Illinois, non-HBCU for undergrad, I will tell you that the experiences that I take away and I re-recall and are just fond and I, you know, embrace them every day are my Howard Law School experiences. From my colleagues in my class who are doing amazing things across the globe, to how we all show up and pull together. The one piece of advice I always give folks is go to a place where you know someone sees you, is gonna help you, is gonna pull you up. You're just not a number of another student in the class, but you are somebody that like will look at you and say, I see you, Miss Gibson, which is my maiden name. I see you, Miss Gibson, and I see you struggling, or I see that you may want to have a little more question, or you look quizzed, you know, you're you're you look like you're confused on something. Can I help? Somebody who's gonna really engage. And I like the smallness of what Howard provided me in that regard. Not only were we all coming together to support each other, nobody was leaving each other behind, but my instructors, all the way up to the dean, were very involved in the day-to-day things that we did. And they also really um kind of embedded us with the knowledge that we had a duty to leave out of that hollowed halls of power to go help our world, our not just our community, but as we show up, how do we move the trajectory of our world? And I that just really stuck with me. And so I would tell a young girl, now go somewhere where you can really feel that. It could be, you know, a predominantly white or institution. It doesn't have to be an HBCU, but go somewhere where you feel like that's a comfort for you. A, that someone sees you. Um, B, I am telling everybody who will listen that if you are not trying to figure out how to embrace AI in a way that's off the charts, you're gonna be left behind. One of the big things that's coming up now is that legal departments are feeling the effect of AI because a lot of our routine things that we do all the time are very much embedded in what could be taken off our plates to make things more simplistic. However, you still need a lawyer's brain and a lawyer's thought processes around all those things to keep things moving. So there's not, there'll always be a need for us, right? But we have to show up in ways that make our value add. And so that's one area, cybersecurity. I would look at all the cutting edge types of issues that are coming up and make sure you are embedded and wedded in them and that you know what they are and how to play them out. Um, long are the days of I'm just gonna go to law school and become a litigator. Okay, that's what I did, and it worked back then. But I don't know that those same type of things are gonna work now. We you all the things that are going on in our world from government affairs to tariffs to international relations, all those things are critical right now in any company, any area, any any municipality, you name it. So get attuned to those topics so that you can be a again, a better value ad as you join anyone's team.

SPEAKER_00:

I think you made a lot of great points. And basically from what I'm gathering, it's important to be adaptable and flexible, but also always, you know, continuously learning because especially with a topic like law, things are constantly changing. There's new things happening every day. And so across your career, I know you've held several different leadership roles across different sectors and industries. So I'm curious to know what lessons have you learned about adapting your leadership style across all of these different global organizations?

SPEAKER_01:

I think that first you need to learn the business. Okay. So adapting your leadership style is a walking in, knowing what you're leading on, right? As a lawyer, that's one platform. But as a C-suite executive where I've been in the last three roles, I'm asked to stand up and talk about our overall organizational, you know, revenue generation, strategy, um, long-range planning, you know, mergers and acquisitions, not just the legal aspect of them, but is this a good acquisition we should take on? Is this help our value add? Culture, how do we engage with our employees? I'm asked to lean in on all those topics, not just legal. So I what I would say is when I'm showing up in a leadership way, A, I gotta know what's happening in the business so I can jump in. And then I need to show up as my authentic self, as I said earlier. I need to be the person in the room who might scratch at an edge a little more than someone else might because of the experiences. That might be the next person tomorrow because of their experiences. So I think showing up in that authentic way after you know what you're talking about, again, because you know the business. I as soon as I join a company, I try to get out of the building and I try to go all around the globe, wherever that is, to learn all of our facilities, meet our people. I'm like, hey, I always say, tell to me like a fifth grader. Like, I've never learned this before, tell it to me. So I want to learn it and I want to, you know, have it pour into me so then I can pour back because I can't pour back what I don't know, right? So that really helps me show up as a leader in the best way I can. The last piece I'll say on this is relationship is key. Like you have to bring people in in order to get what you want out of those people. Um, they'll be more in tune with you if you feel or make them feel comfortable. Everyone has something in common with somebody else, right? We all have things we can tap into. We all, you know, as adults, we may all have children, or we may have kids in college, or I might like to cook, or I love to travel, or hey, I knit, or whatever it might be. We all need to come together to figure out what's that common thread and then use that to build our relationships with each other because I'm it's easier for me to talk to you and say, hey, here's a problem I'm seeing in the company. How can we solve this together when we're on one accord versus battling it out? So my I walk in a place really trying to establish those relationships. I still have them all over from every job I've ever had. I have people reach out to me from two or three jobs ago asking me various things. I do the same thing for people that I've worked with. I just gave a reference for some money two weeks two jobs ago who's looking to move. You know, those are things that you have to continue to pay forward so that you can get those returns back.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. That's very important. And I think throughout my whole life, what my parents have instilled in me, and even my mentors, as you know, your net worth is your net work, and it's important to foster these connections that you're making, but also like you keep mentioning being authentic and being genuine because I feel like a lot of the times people they can kind of feel your energy and they can tell when you're not being genuine. And so with you having a role as a lawyer and being in, you know, corporate America, I feel that a lot of the times whenever you think of careers like that, whether it's involved in corporate or law, you know, you may think that people might be sharks or they may be snakes, or sometimes, you know, people can feel not genuine or like they're truly have your best intentions at heart. And so with you being a black woman and navigating these spaces, how are you able to kind of know or trust your gut in different situations? And has there been a moment where you may have made the wrong decision or you may have trusted the wrong person? And how did you navigate that?

SPEAKER_01:

Absolutely have been in that scenario. I mean, I I've had situations where I had peers that we just could not work together alongside. There was always come some kind of animosity. Again, I never lead with that. It's just not who I am as a person, but you have to again get the other side back. For me, I just show up as me. Like I don't um, I don't suffer fools, to be honest. I will uh essentially say, all right, obviously we've gotten off on the wrong foot. What can we do to get this back together? And I always couch in the terms of the company. I'll say things like, hey, you and me aside, in the best interest of, for example, C.H. Robinson, how should we attack this problem? And many times you can get people to go, okay, let me let my shoulders down. It's not about me, it's about this that we work in, right? Um, I I think that's that's a critical piece. You come to work each day to do your best for that job. But at the end of the day, I also tell my team, this is just one piece of your life. It is not all of your life. And your life is the cherry pieces of your family and being with them and experiencing the things that you experience, traveling and seeing new things that you've never done. Uh, curious scientists, I always call myself someone who's always wanting to know the next step and learn more. That's what really like makes people chill. So when you're at that point, you just have to kind of figure out how do we pull these things together? Sometimes they don't always work. And then you may need to find an ally or someone that outside of you can kind of help you navigate it. I've called on many allies, many mentors, many, you know, sponsors, people who've been in the room who said my name. I didn't even know they said my name. But sometimes you just need your extra support if you can't stab at it. Again, all in the interest of how do we move this thing forward?

SPEAKER_00:

Exactly. So thank you for that answer. I think you pretty much like hit the nail on the head of exactly what I was looking for and trying to ask for. And you mentioning support. And so um, something that I really value is my family. And of course, with whatever career that I feel like my listeners may want to pursue, ultimately we do want to have that work-life balance. And so, with you being a mother and you um your youngest daughter being one of my closest friends, I'm curious to know how have you been able to balance having such an amazing career, but also that family balance as well.

SPEAKER_01:

So I'm gonna say something that it's probably not gonna sound great, but I will say everybody needs to brace themselves for there. Really is no balance. Okay, really is no balance. It it's always like this, right? Like some days you're gonna look at me, you would be, I'd join your podcast and you'd be like, oh my God, look at her. Like hair snatch back, whatever. That's the day I way I show up today because I had to deal with my kids this morning, or I had to do the whatever it is. There's balance and balance, there's balance and waves, right? There's days when you can come home and go, ah, everything's together. In an hour, something else is gonna happen. So I just feel like you just always have to be mentally prepared for the day, like the experience. I will say though, you have to ask for help. I didn't do that often in in my younger years, when I had younger children, I didn't ask for a lot of help. I was literally the person bouncing all the plates and juggling all. And I finally have gotten in my older age to a point where I really do raise my hand and ask for help. And I say, hey, you know what, I can't do this, or I'm not gonna be able to get that done, or this is gonna show up this way. It's also helpful, and you know, again, this is probably well before many of you are doing this, but it's helpful to have a partner in some way to support you in that effort. And I have been blessed and fortunate to have had that so that if I can't do it, my husband could do it. If if I couldn't help this, my mom or dad were able to jump in. My sister could jump in. Like, I really rely and lean heavily on my village and not just my immediate family, but I've helped friends. Like, hey, your son needs, I see your son's still here. You need to get him? Good, I'll pick him up. I'll feed him, bring, we'll bring him home later. It's a pulling together of people who are all in the same space trying to move forward. And you just still need to get caught up in the day-to-day drama of it because it's like it's life, it's good. Like it's it's a blessing that we have children. They can go to school. That, you know, I was my my standard line these days is I get to. I get to go to work. Like there's a lot of people who don't get to go to work because they may not have a job and they're looking for jobs. I get to go to work. Some days I'm like, oh Lord, I'm going to work. But it's like I get to go to work, right? I get to have these beautiful, amazing daughters to raise. Um, I get to have these friendships that I can rely on and lean on to help me, and I'm gonna help them back. So when you put yourself in that mindset of I get to, you are in a better spot than the dread of, oh my God, I can't believe this is happening. Oh my God, what's going on? So um that's kind of how I've tried to live it. It didn't come easy. That was not early, Dorothy, me. That has been something that I have learned over the years.

SPEAKER_00:

And thank you for your transparency and honesty with that, because I feel like a lot of the times we have a certain vision in mind of what we think our career or our future is gonna be like. And I really appreciate you, you know, telling us the real and saying, you know, some days it's not all peaches and rainbows and what you may expect it to be, but also, you know, I'm learning to extend myself grace and even what you said at the end there with it's all about perspective and the way you look at it. So I love the way that you said, like, I get to rather than I have to. I think that definitely does change your mindset. And I know that we both are kind of on a time crunch right now, so I want to be respectful of our time and also um with the episode. And so I have a signature question that I always ask um at the end, which is what's one piece of advice you would give Gen Z to go out and diversify themselves? Whether that means broadening their skills, expanding their networks, embracing different cultures and perspectives. But what is one piece of advice that you would give and you want them to truly take from this episode?

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, well, you just gave three great examples. But if I were um to say this, there's one thing I always leave um that someone once taught me, and I would say to them, make no unnecessary enemies. I think it sounds a little crazy, but it's true. Like going back to my point of I get to, and you have to embrace things with a lot more positivity. I think that we sometimes, and especially now in this climate, people are angry and frustrated all the time. From driving down the street and people road raging, I saw a man like go off on someone in the car for like just moving in front of him and just had an absolute meltdown. And I was like, oh my God, you know, what did I do? I stopped and prayed for him because I was like, he's having a bad day. Everyone is on the edge of something. You know, our world, our politics, our all those things are impacting us greatly. And you never know how that's gonna show up. So try not to make enemies just for enemies' sake. Remember that everyone's going through something, and we are all needing grace and empathy for what we're going through, right or wrong, right? At the end of the day. And I think if we can become, and I'm it's gonna sound crazy, kinder to each other, we will be in a scenario where we can actually feel like we're moving the needle versus always feeling like we're at a battle. Um, it goes also to a point I made earlier. Relationships are critical to how we show up in the world, right? I can't do anything without my relationships. If I can't get the support and the help I need, I gotta build those relationships and you have to water them, fertilize them, you do for them to grow. They can't just be, I know her, I know I can call on her, I need to give her what she's gonna give me or him what he's gonna give me, whatever it is. So making those relationships and those critical, like I'm just mad, so I'm gonna do this, and realize it's gonna show up in a different way later, it's just not gonna be fruitful to you. So I just say, hey, let it roll off your back, just keep on moving. Obviously, unless it's something that's so in your face that you can't ignore, I think people need to give ourselves each other a lot more grace than we are right now. Um, culturally and every way, right? Um, just from every aspect of what we're doing. It will take you far. I have a great story about a woman who I used to work with many, many years ago who was just very difficult to work with, and nobody wanted to work with her. And I used to kill her with kindness and just try to go in there and get things done. And I will tell you, another colleague of mine just battled it out with her, had it in, just was like, I'm done. And they were literally never speak to each other. Fast forward two years, that woman who was very difficult to work with became that other woman's boss. Fluky because of the way in which the organization I was in just kind of promoted people. So all of a sudden, this woman that she probably could have figured out a way to get along with that she didn't became a manager of hers and just made her life even more of a living hell. And I was kind of like, that was probably an unnecessary enemy, right? You didn't need to make her an enemy. You could have figured out a way because things do come back and loop back. So just think about that as you're moving forward. Don't be so hasty and so quick to act. But otherwise, just think about it for a minute, take it in, and just you know, figure out whether it's gonna make or break your day. If it's not, then keep it moving, right? Um, because at some point you never know how it may show back up for you.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think that's a great mindset to have. And, you know, killing with kindness, as my mom always says. So thank you so much. I think you gave such great advice. And I'm sure if anyone has any follow-up questions or maybe wants to connect with you, I'll have your contact information in the bio below. Again, thank you so much for taking the time out of your day to come on the show. I'm so excited to keep seeing the amazing things that you do. And thank you everyone to listen to. This is awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

I just want to say to all your listeners that I'm super, super proud of you. And then as you all go forth, just having this kind of a platform where you can hear more from other people and different perspectives is just an amazing thing. So, kudos to you for creating this opportunity. Thank you. Um, for me and for others to share, and I'm more than happy to open myself up to anyone's questions.

SPEAKER_00:

Love thank you so much. Thank you, because that's really what this is all about just creating a safe space for more intensive stories to be shared. So I really appreciate it. Thank you all for listening, and I'll catch you next time on Diversify Heart.